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	<title>Comments on: Market anarchism as stigmergic socialism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473</link>
	<description>the bottom of the rabbit hole</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Spillersman</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-27882</link>
		<dc:creator>Spillersman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-27882</guid>
		<description>Taking into account all of what was said in the essay it would seem possible then for mutualists and "ancho capitalists" to form coalitions together.  If you ever had the stateless society and you were forming a voluntary local political community made of mostly mutualists and anarcho capitalists would it be possible for them to form a community that maybe is a comprise between the two systems?  Maybe where the labor theory carries much wait but is not absolutist.  Possibly where some profit and interest is permissible but where income generated by labor is seen as superior from a moral perspective.  In terms of property you might allow rents, but also seek to create opportunities for people to own property so as to reduce the need to rent.  Some ways to do that might be low cost housing cooperatives being established by nonprofit groups or the community itself.  Maybe also have a lower time from for when property is considered abandoned and thus open to new users for ownership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking into account all of what was said in the essay it would seem possible then for mutualists and &#8220;ancho capitalists&#8221; to form coalitions together.  If you ever had the stateless society and you were forming a voluntary local political community made of mostly mutualists and anarcho capitalists would it be possible for them to form a community that maybe is a comprise between the two systems?  Maybe where the labor theory carries much wait but is not absolutist.  Possibly where some profit and interest is permissible but where income generated by labor is seen as superior from a moral perspective.  In terms of property you might allow rents, but also seek to create opportunities for people to own property so as to reduce the need to rent.  Some ways to do that might be low cost housing cooperatives being established by nonprofit groups or the community itself.  Maybe also have a lower time from for when property is considered abandoned and thus open to new users for ownership.</p>
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		<title>By: BradSpangler.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Hume&#8217;s is-ought problem</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-27182</link>
		<dc:creator>BradSpangler.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Hume&#8217;s is-ought problem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-27182</guid>
		<description>[...] = '';   Powered by Gregarious (42)So, anyway, the topic of Hume&#8217;s is-ought problem came up on this blog several months [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] = &#8221;;   Powered by Gregarious (42)So, anyway, the topic of Hume&#8217;s is-ought problem came up on this blog several months [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BradSpangler.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On the increasing irrelevancy of certain terms</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-19713</link>
		<dc:creator>BradSpangler.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On the increasing irrelevancy of certain terms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-19713</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve argued before, and still maintain, that certain strands of Rothbardian market anarchist thought from Rothbard&#8217;s alliance with the New Left phase in the 1960&#8217;s are better described as &#8220;libertarian socialism&#8221; in the same sense that Tucker was a &#8220;socialist&#8221;, and modern Tuckerite mutualists are also &#8220;socialists&#8221;, but not state socialists. This, despite Rothbard&#8217;s culturally Right tendencies and erroneous naming of his ideas as &#8220;anarcho-capitalism&#8221;. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve argued before, and still maintain, that certain strands of Rothbardian market anarchist thought from Rothbard&#8217;s alliance with the New Left phase in the 1960&#8217;s are better described as &#8220;libertarian socialism&#8221; in the same sense that Tucker was a &#8220;socialist&#8221;, and modern Tuckerite mutualists are also &#8220;socialists&#8221;, but not state socialists. This, despite Rothbard&#8217;s culturally Right tendencies and erroneous naming of his ideas as &#8220;anarcho-capitalism&#8221;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Spangler</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-19074</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Spangler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-19074</guid>
		<description>My initial layman's take on the matter, going by this Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is-ought_problem

...is that it seems rather silly/self-contradictory to assert that since it supposedly IS impossible to derive "ought" from "is", that we OUGHT not make reference to "ought".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My initial layman&#8217;s take on the matter, going by this Wikipedia article:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is-ought_problem" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is-ought_problem</a></p>
<p>&#8230;is that it seems rather silly/self-contradictory to assert that since it supposedly IS impossible to derive &#8220;ought&#8221; from &#8220;is&#8221;, that we OUGHT not make reference to &#8220;ought&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: berserkrl</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-19071</link>
		<dc:creator>berserkrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-19071</guid>
		<description>jasiek,

I don't think natural law ethics -- Rothbard's or anybody else's -- is best understood as trying to derive an 'ought' from an 'is'.  Natural law theories generally start off with some 'ought' that they claim is rationally mandatory -- not because it follows from some 'is' but because we can't deny it without some sort of prgamatic incoherence.  (Rothbard, for example, takes this line in _The Ethics of Liberty_.  So did Socrates, so did the Stoics, so did Aquinas, etc.)  Then the further 'oughts' are derived from the *conjunction* of that 'ought' with various facts about human nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jasiek,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think natural law ethics &#8212; Rothbard&#8217;s or anybody else&#8217;s &#8212; is best understood as trying to derive an &#8216;ought&#8217; from an &#8216;is&#8217;.  Natural law theories generally start off with some &#8216;ought&#8217; that they claim is rationally mandatory &#8212; not because it follows from some &#8216;is&#8217; but because we can&#8217;t deny it without some sort of prgamatic incoherence.  (Rothbard, for example, takes this line in _The Ethics of Liberty_.  So did Socrates, so did the Stoics, so did Aquinas, etc.)  Then the further &#8216;oughts&#8217; are derived from the *conjunction* of that &#8216;ought&#8217; with various facts about human nature.</p>
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		<title>By: BradSpangler.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Write my post: Agorism vs Anarcho-capitalism</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-19068</link>
		<dc:creator>BradSpangler.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Write my post: Agorism vs Anarcho-capitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-19068</guid>
		<description>[...] As I wrote in &#8220;Market anarchism as stigmergic socialism&#8220;: After thinking about this a great deal, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve come to the conclusion that the above exaggerates the differences between anarcho-capitalism and mutualism as ideologies, but not necessarily as movements Ã¢â‚¬â€ an important distinction to make. As a result, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d like to review why I believe anarcho-capitalism is, in some ways, incorrectly named and why this, in turn, has resulted in an anarcho-capitalist movement consisting of a large number of deviationists insufficient in their adherence to their own stated principles. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] As I wrote in &#8220;Market anarchism as stigmergic socialism&#8220;: After thinking about this a great deal, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve come to the conclusion that the above exaggerates the differences between anarcho-capitalism and mutualism as ideologies, but not necessarily as movements Ã¢â‚¬â€ an important distinction to make. As a result, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d like to review why I believe anarcho-capitalism is, in some ways, incorrectly named and why this, in turn, has resulted in an anarcho-capitalist movement consisting of a large number of deviationists insufficient in their adherence to their own stated principles. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jasiek</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-12125</link>
		<dc:creator>jasiek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-12125</guid>
		<description>Brad, do you know what is "is-ought" problem? it goes like that - you can't deduce (action od deduction... sorry if this is inproper word for that, im not very good english language user) from "is" "ought". and that means, i thought so, that rothbard's theory of natural law is useless, because even if human nature is that what he wanted it to be (and i'm thinking Rothbard was very wrong about it), the fact of  that nature of human kind is that - and -that  don't tell us how we, as the humans, should act</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad, do you know what is &#8220;is-ought&#8221; problem? it goes like that - you can&#8217;t deduce (action od deduction&#8230; sorry if this is inproper word for that, im not very good english language user) from &#8220;is&#8221; &#8220;ought&#8221;. and that means, i thought so, that rothbard&#8217;s theory of natural law is useless, because even if human nature is that what he wanted it to be (and i&#8217;m thinking Rothbard was very wrong about it), the fact of  that nature of human kind is that - and -that  don&#8217;t tell us how we, as the humans, should act</p>
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		<title>By: BillG</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-11933</link>
		<dc:creator>BillG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-11933</guid>
		<description>Brad wrote:

"RothbardÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s natural law theory and radically anti-state version of Lockean property rights theory serves the same role."

doesn't the radical version of Lockean property rights have to include Locke's provisos?

- spoilage
- enough and as good

mutualists are Lockean deviationists because they have taken what money had made moot for spoilage and extended it it to occupancy and use.

georgists are Lockean deviationists because they take the enough and as good proviso to it's logical conclusion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;RothbardÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s natural law theory and radically anti-state version of Lockean property rights theory serves the same role.&#8221;</p>
<p>doesn&#8217;t the radical version of Lockean property rights have to include Locke&#8217;s provisos?</p>
<p>- spoilage<br />
- enough and as good</p>
<p>mutualists are Lockean deviationists because they have taken what money had made moot for spoilage and extended it it to occupancy and use.</p>
<p>georgists are Lockean deviationists because they take the enough and as good proviso to it&#8217;s logical conclusion</p>
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		<title>By: b-psycho</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-11884</link>
		<dc:creator>b-psycho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-11884</guid>
		<description>Visitor: IMO that just shows how somewhere along the line mainstream "socialist" thought Jumped the Shark...  

People can agitate for there to be no such thing as private property all they want, doesn't mean it's possible.  Being realistic, even collectively-held property is still property, and comes with all that applies.  Rather than hold onto images of no one owning anything at all, it is vastly more useful to simply consider how they got it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Visitor: IMO that just shows how somewhere along the line mainstream &#8220;socialist&#8221; thought Jumped the Shark&#8230;  </p>
<p>People can agitate for there to be no such thing as private property all they want, doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s possible.  Being realistic, even collectively-held property is still property, and comes with all that applies.  Rather than hold onto images of no one owning anything at all, it is vastly more useful to simply consider how they got it.</p>
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		<title>By: frost</title>
		<link>http://bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473/comment-page-1#comment-11863</link>
		<dc:creator>frost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/473#comment-11863</guid>
		<description>Reading the blogosphere of the libertarian left for some time, I still cannot help but be amazed by the time you guys waste trying to redefine your terms.     Seriously, forget this "we're not capitalists, but socialists!"-talk for a second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading the blogosphere of the libertarian left for some time, I still cannot help but be amazed by the time you guys waste trying to redefine your terms.     Seriously, forget this &#8220;we&#8217;re not capitalists, but socialists!&#8221;-talk for a second.</p>
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